If there is a "God" who is intelligent and powerful enough to create our Universe, who created that "God"?
Olin Moyles Ghost
JoinedPosts by Olin Moyles Ghost
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If theres no God why the earth, the brain the universe? (Atheist and Agnostics)
by cyberjesus in(this question is directed to all the atheist and agnostics in the forum only).
i like most of the people here believed in a god who created us and the earth.
it was easy to explain the reason on many things like the degrees of inclination of the earth, the existance of water in our planet, the existance of an atmosphere, they joy in all the senses, the clear superiority of the human beens versus all other animals, the posesion of a brain who attempts to explain itself.
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What if there was "new light" that the 144,000 was symbolic?
by Sour Grapes ini really think that if the watchtower had an article.
that had the new light that the 144,000 was a symbolic.
number that the majority of jw's would accept this.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
I agree with UC for the most part. It will cause some to begin questioning and researching--just like the generation change in 1995.
But overall, it won't be that big of a deal to most JWs. As 'V' once said (I miss that guy, by the way): "JWs don't believe in anything." In other words, doctrines are secondary. With the exception of (1) hell, (2) trinity, (3) immortal soul, and (4) paradise earth, the WTS could change its teachings any way it chooses and 99% of JWs will go right along with it.
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The Ransom for Nitwits
by Farkel inmark 10:45: "for even the son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.".
1 timothy 2:5-6: "for there is one god, and one mediator between god and men, the man christ jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.".
the ransom that was taught for the first 1,000 years of christianity.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Good work, Farkel. As a believing JW, I never understood the ransom. How could being dead for 36 hours compensate for Adam being dead forever? And if Jesus paid the ransom 2000 years ago, why are people still dying? I always figured it was too "deep" and I wasn't "spiritual" enough to understand it. Kinda like the "issue of universal sovereignty"...
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Is the Bible Really Scientifically Accurate?
by FreeAtLast1914 inthe society (and others) love to quote job 26:7 where it says that "[god] suspends the earth over nothing" and isaiah 40:22, where it speaks of "the circle of the earth".
they use these scriptures to boast about the incredible scientific accuracy of the bible, proving god had a direct hand in everything written in it.. the trouble is that elsewhere in the scriptures, opposing views are put forth explaining then-unexplainable physics and geographical notions.
one is job 26:11: "the pillars of heaven tremble.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
@lovelylil--sorry for the delay in responding. I don't typically log into this board every day.
Regarding the "literal days" of creation: You are correct that the Genesis account does not explicitly state that the "days" are 24 hours. But the way the days are described strongly weigh in favor of literal days. Specifically, when discussing each day, the writer states "it came to be evening and it came to be morning." Why would the writer discuss "evenings" and "mornings" of figurative days? That makes no sense. Are there any other places in the Bible where it refers to "evenings" and "mornings" of figurative days? No. The inconvenient truth for all except young earth creationists is that the Genesis writer was referring to literal days...and he gives it away by referring to evenings and mornings.
Regarding the sun revolving around the earth: For hundreds of years, the church taught that the Bible supported this view. Eccl. 1:5 states that the sun hurries back to where it started. In other words, it is saying that the sun revolves around the earth. Also, in Joshua 10:12-13 Joshua asked the sun to stand still and God allegedly made the sun stand still. If the writer realized that the earth revolved around the sun, he would have written that the earth stood still. Again, I realize that apologetics torture the plain meaning of verses such as these to cling to their beliefs. But when you look at the plain language of these verses, the most likely explanation is that the writers did not understand that the earth revolved around the sun.
Regarding the order of creation and photosynthesis: So you're arguing that Genesis 1 supports the position that light from the sun reached the earth before the third "day." So even though verse 15 says that "lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth" are created on the 4th day--after plants, you allege that the "light" of day 1 was the sun providing light to the earth? That just doesn't add up. Of course, Genesis 1 just doesn't add up. I feel sorry for people who feel the need to defend this nonsense.
Regarding the flood: You say that because I can't prove a negative, you don't have to respond. So if I say there's a purple teapot orbiting between earth and Mars, you won't be able to argue against it because you can't disprove it, right? I think any reasonable person has to understand that a global flood with waters higher than Mt. Everest about 4300 years ago simply didn't happen. And shouldn't the burden of proof be on the people arguing in favor of the supernatural?
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Is the Bible Really Scientifically Accurate?
by FreeAtLast1914 inthe society (and others) love to quote job 26:7 where it says that "[god] suspends the earth over nothing" and isaiah 40:22, where it speaks of "the circle of the earth".
they use these scriptures to boast about the incredible scientific accuracy of the bible, proving god had a direct hand in everything written in it.. the trouble is that elsewhere in the scriptures, opposing views are put forth explaining then-unexplainable physics and geographical notions.
one is job 26:11: "the pillars of heaven tremble.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
@Perry--sorry for the delay in responding. I typically don't have the opportunity to visit this board daily. Thanks for providing some more details about your beliefs. I don't run across too many people who truly believe that humans and dinosaurs coexisted--fascinating!
While this discovery (which may be dinosaur soft tissue) is exciting, it seems a bit extreme to use it as a basis discard all of the evidence for dinosaurs having lived tens of millions of years ago. Rather, it makes more sense to consider the evidence as a whole and examine how this new discovery fits into that body of evidence.
Of course, there is a cottage industry of fundamentalist organizations that is focused on muddying the scientific waters as much as possible. These outfits remind me of the studies funded by the cigarette industry in the 1960s and 70s that found no conclusive link between smoking and lung cancer. I guess I can't really blame these religious folks--they're just trying to make sure they keep getting paid...sorta reminds me of a certain religious publishing company that many of us were affiliated with.
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Myth - The Bible claims to be inspired by God
by gubberningbody inthe bible has 66 books (more if you're catholic, less if you're jewish), and multiple authors.
some of these authors claimed that some of what they wrote down was inspired by god.
that's hardly enough for someone to conclude that the bible claims inspiration for all of the words written by the multiple authors who were involved with writing "it" over the centuries.. .
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Undercover--you have a PM.
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Myth - The Bible claims to be inspired by God
by gubberningbody inthe bible has 66 books (more if you're catholic, less if you're jewish), and multiple authors.
some of these authors claimed that some of what they wrote down was inspired by god.
that's hardly enough for someone to conclude that the bible claims inspiration for all of the words written by the multiple authors who were involved with writing "it" over the centuries.. .
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Gubbering body: Olin, Paul's trivial letter which makes passing reference to "scripture" doesn't qualify as anything other than Paul's meandering opinion. Not only does Paul (aka Saul) go back and forth at times sometimes he thinks he has Gods spirit (1 Co. 7:39), and sometimes he can't remember where he read something (Heb. 2:6), but his endorsement doesn't even begin to address just what books he was talking about? If he was with the camp of the pharisees, then he believed in a whole lot more than just the books we have at present. You simply can't take one joker's opinion as an endorsement of the whole.
Looks like you're "moving the goalposts" on us. You said that the Bible doesn't claim to be inspired. I pointed out that it does, and gave a citation to the chapter/verse. Now you're saying that doesn't count for some reason. That hardly seems fair. ;)
But if I was put in the position of having to defend the nonsense that are in the pages of the Bible, I would probably try to come up with some kind of rationalization like you've done.
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Facebook condemned
by straightshooter inmy wife told me that at the last meeting, the elders announced that youngsters going to the skateboarding park were no longer to have any privileges in the congregation.
this is to prevent jw youngs to be rounded up if a drug raid was made at the skateboarding park.. also because of individuals requesting that they be friends on facebook that contain bad pictures, that anyone with a facebook account will automatically have their privileges removed.. sounds like the pharasees protecting the people by adding additional traditions upon them.. .
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Cantleave: Not true. I know Elders who still go to concerts. A friend of mine has seen Muse, U2 and Morrisey this year alone.
Please read the post before you reply to it. My post stated that "In more recent years, I've heard of congregations not allowing JWs to serve as pioneers or Ministerial Servants if they go to nightclubs or rock concerts." The purpose of this was to show that different congregations make up different rules. Nowhere does the post say that this applied to all or even most congregations. But it does apply to some of which I have personal knowledge.
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Is the Bible Really Scientifically Accurate?
by FreeAtLast1914 inthe society (and others) love to quote job 26:7 where it says that "[god] suspends the earth over nothing" and isaiah 40:22, where it speaks of "the circle of the earth".
they use these scriptures to boast about the incredible scientific accuracy of the bible, proving god had a direct hand in everything written in it.. the trouble is that elsewhere in the scriptures, opposing views are put forth explaining then-unexplainable physics and geographical notions.
one is job 26:11: "the pillars of heaven tremble.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Even under the "gap theory"--which I understand from the link to mean that there's a gap of millions/billions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2--doesn't a literal fundamentalist reading of the Bible require all life on earth to be in the neighborhood of 6000 years old. In other words, dinosaurs coexisted with Adam and Eve, etc.
That's just silly. I find it fascinating that grown-ups believe this kind of thing. But not many years ago, I believed in talking snakes, talking donkeys, global floods, etc., which are just as ludicrous, so I guess I shouldn't be so quick to criticize.
And I'm skeptical that there are "plenty of recognized scientists" who believe that about 4300 years ago there was a global flood that covered the earth higher than Mt. Everest.
Finally, I understand that you believe that the Bible is true "within the proper contextual standpoint." That simply means that when observed facts prove the Bible wrong, you change what the Bible means. The WTS and many Christians do this with Genesis 1. Only mouth-breathing fundamentalists still believe that all life on the earth is 6000 years old. So the WTS and others say that "day" can mean thousands/millions of years.
I posit that this is completely at odds with the plain language of the scripture which discusses each "day" comprising an "evening" and a "morning." This strongly indicates that the writer is referring to 24-hour days. Any other reading is strained and contradictory to the plain text. But lots of Christians are willing to do this to salvage their holy book.
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Facebook condemned
by straightshooter inmy wife told me that at the last meeting, the elders announced that youngsters going to the skateboarding park were no longer to have any privileges in the congregation.
this is to prevent jw youngs to be rounded up if a drug raid was made at the skateboarding park.. also because of individuals requesting that they be friends on facebook that contain bad pictures, that anyone with a facebook account will automatically have their privileges removed.. sounds like the pharasees protecting the people by adding additional traditions upon them.. .
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Not surprised. Bodies of elders are free to set "congregation standards" to determine who is "exemplary" enough for "privileges." Often these standards relate to dress/grooming--such as the infamous example from a few decades ago of some congregations requiring brothers to wear white shirts when giving talks.
In more recent years, I've heard of congregations not allowing JWs to serve as pioneers or Ministerial Servants if they go to nightclubs or rock concerts.
Of course, this varies from congregation to congregation. There has been no official condemnation of Facebook/Myspace/etc. from the Society. But I expect more local needs talks, mentions from the platform at circuit assemblies, etc., in the coming months and years.